SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hello,

Welcome And Community Ground Rules

SPEAKER_01 0:26

friends. Welcome to our monthly community conversations. I am your host, Adela Hittel. I am also the founder of Project Human, also known as Fink, a new way to think. Tonight I'll be moderating the meeting as well. Tonight I'll be moderating the meeting with one of our volunteers, Jen, and we have a couple people that have joined our Zoom call tonight. I'm super excited for this conversation and what we're going to be doing. These calls are monthly online events where members of Fink and our extended community come together to explore meaningful topics around mental and emotional well-being. Each conversation includes a brief introduction to Fink, insight into the evening's theme, and an opportunity to connect, reflect, and grow together. This space exists for one simple, uh simple but powerful reason, so that none of us have to navigate life challenges alone. Here we create a safe space where every voice matters and every experience is respected. Tonight's conversation is about something that can be incredibly powerful and sometimes incredibly difficult. Forgiveness. For many of us, forgiveness can feel confusing or even uncomfortable to talk about. Some of us may have been told that we must forgive. Or others may feel like forgiveness means pretending that something hasn't something isn't, didn't hurt, didn't happen, and just didn't it doesn't exist. But tonight isn't about pressure. It's about exploring forgiveness as a choice that can support our own healing and our growth. As a reminder, we are non-medical professionals. If you are in crisis, reach out to your local mental health resource or dial 911 for immediate assistance for National Suicide Prevention Support dial 988. We are recording and live streaming tonight's event on our YouTube channel. So please take a moment to turn off your cameras for those of you who are on our Zoom call if you do not wish to be on them. And for those of you who are watching on our live stream but have not subscribed yet, we would love to have you subscribe. And if you are not following, you can always catch these live or after our recordings. We will be using tonight's conversations to promote and raise awareness about Finks organization and our mission. So by participating, you give us permission to for audio and video content to be used for promotional purposes. And tonight I'd like to introduce you to my co-host and uh my volunteer, also the human who helps put these scripts together and really cohesive way to come and bring you a subject and a conversation that means a lot, not only to us, but to obviously the community. So let me introduce to you our team today. Here we go. We have Alicia coming in. We have Jennifer. Jennifer is our co-host, and uh Claire, who's joined us in our conversation. And we also have OG. Thank you for popping on. Um, Jen, take it away.

What Forgiveness Can Actually Mean

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Thanks, Adela.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

Tonight's topic is a heavy one. Uh, it's big, but it has the power to release weight that we carry so that heaviness can actually be let go of. And I think it's important to start out acknowledging that forgiveness can look a whole lot different from person to person. Um, some people may feel ready to forgive something in their past, and others may still be processing a lot of the frustration or pain or betrayal. And all of those experiences are valid. You know, we all have different types of forgiveness that we need to walk through. Um, we're gonna explore different types of forgiveness tonight. Um, we're gonna talk about the importance of boundaries. You know, um, saying I forgive does not mean I give permission to harm again. Talk about the difference between that two. Um, we're all going to spend a little bit of time talking about what it can feel like to carry resentment and pain with us and what that is, what that does to the soul, to the body, uh, and how forgiveness can sometimes lighten that weight. So uh as always, you know, your participation live is optional. Speak up, share when you feel comfortable, listening is just as valuable, uh, and we're glad that you're here.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

So we're so excited to introduce you um to a little bit more about what Project Human is, and we're grateful to have you here again. Uh, whether this is your first time or you've joined us before, you are a part of the Fink community. Uh, please know that every human being, the idea of Fink is a nucleus, it's an idea that every human matters and that in every space, any place, someone, somewhere, somehow can create a safe space and can create a place for a human and a boundary for a human to be able to come in and have a capacity to share what they need to be in safe space in a safe space, right? And existence. So that's the idea of Project Human. Is the human is worth the effort? Uh so this space is about safety, compassion, curiosity. And just as a reminder, you're not alone in this journey. I promise you. I thought I was alone, and the longer I stay on this earth and the longer I value, really learn the value of this life, the more I know I'm not alone. And the more I know that every single one of us is in one space or another, have been through the same situation, same place, same thing. We just don't understand how to express it because it's difficult for us in that moment, like forgiveness.

Why Self Forgiveness Comes First

SPEAKER_01 5:44

So, Project Human is a peer-to-peer art-driven nonprofit that turns practical skills into everyday resilience. We design short evidence-informed workshop and creative activations that help people regulate stress, set boundaries, and reconnect with purpose. Because, again, humans are worth the effort. Our goal in helping solve a few problems is isolation and disconnection. So when people feel alone, everything gets heavier, right? So think creates safe spaces that can people can be seen, heard, and supported, whether that's through our Artists Within Podcast, our MCCs here now, or our uh documentary that we have, our blogs, our quarterly mental health days, there's always an opportunity for you to come and have a safe space to be seen or heard. So you're not alone and you can connect. Stigma and silence. Many humans avoid help because they feel judged or misunderstood. So we hope that we can replace stigma with normal conversation and practical steps. Going through life and understanding that life is hard and we are human beings, mere human beings, being pressed and pushed at every angle, every space. We are not alone. And so to normalize being alone in that is just ridiculous. So let's change it and say, hey, we're here. We don't have to be alone in silence. Just like men suffer in silence, every human can is suffers in silence. So let's make that a voice where we're not suffering in silence, right? A lack of access to understandable tools. A lot of times mental health information can feel overwhelming. So you could get a lot of information from one space or another, and we can, it can just feel like you don't understand it because the world, again, the way one speaks or narrate is different, the way you perceive it. So we hope that we can translate it into simple, doable actions to build stability over time. It's about small, actionable steps you can take every day. We hope that we can help with burnout and caregivers and caregivers and service roles, right? Think about it. Every single one of us in some position, shape, or form is a caregiver. So we give to every human that safe space to let them know that burnout is just not acceptable anymore. But to our teachers, healthcare workers, first responders, veterans, and partners and parents, we often carry a quiet, uh, very quiet and heavy weight. So we hope that we can build spaces and honor them and strengthen them and give them so much more. I don't want to use the word motivation because that's something that I've learned that I don't, we don't, I don't do motivation. It's objective and it's a fleeting moment. But here's what we do we show up, we support with consistency, and we hope that we can be there letting people know that again, you are worth that showing up and that consistence conversations. Lastly, community fragmentation. We have learned that there are so many resources in our Jacksonville community and surrounding areas, but it's so hard because we're so disconnected in so many ways and shapes and forms. So we hope that we can bridge that between our humans, our resources, and local partners so that the support becomes a shared culture and not a private struggle. All right, so that's a little bit about FINC. And that way you uh take a look at us. We are coming a lot, we're coming in strong this year in so many different ways. So we want to come in strong with this one conversation of forgiveness this month in March, specifically because I thank you again, thank you to the team who helped create this um years of content and and topics for us to discuss. Because this one for me, particularly this month, in which I had to face some things myself, I had to go face family and face things that I really was, but I did because it required forgiving yourself for the things that you didn't know or you didn't have the capacity and owning it, having the conversation and saying, Hey, I want to be better. So when we talk about forgiveness, many people immediately could think of something as we have to give to someone else, right? But again, it can mean it can take several forms. So tonight we're gonna talk about forgiving others, but most importantly, forgiving yourself, really truly forgiving yourself. Before you can forgive anybody else, you have to forgive yourself for the things you did not know, that this human experience you're living, you don't know all the information. But when you do and you understand it and you don't change it, that's a problem in a conversation you should have. But forgiving yourself for the things you did not know, for the actions you took when you had no control over or had no resources or had no ways doesn't excuse behavior and continued behavior, but it does allow you to forgive yourself so that you can make that change and you can be a better human in that way, right? Um, forgiving others often comes up when someone has hurt us or betrayed us in our trust and it causes extreme emotional pain, we can try which actually can translate to into physical pain. As someone who's lived with holding on to so much anger and resentment, um, and even on vice versa, of hope for someone to be there for me or to whatever, it can really translate into not only emotional but physical um pain for you. So forgiveness doesn't mean saying what happened was okay, and it doesn't mean that my pain or your pain doesn't have any value or meaning. It just means that from this point on, I am choosing to decide that I'm worth the effort of living a peaceful, joyful life, and I want to do it and create that level of foundation versus what was before.

SPEAKER_06 11:10

Personal forgiveness, uh, Adela, is I think one of the things that troubles me the deepest. Uh, I'm really hard on myself. And I know that there are those in the community that may also be hard on themselves. Um carrying deep guilt and regret and berating myself for things that have happened, my past choices, you know, the things I said when I was in a mood, mistakes I made that seemed stupid, or if I'd just been paying attention just a fraction more, maybe I wouldn't have screwed that one up. And gosh, am I even worthwhile? You know, I gotta beat myself up to be better next time. And that's just a really harsh way of living, constantly hurting yourself inside with your words, your thoughts, and your frame of mind. And I find that sometimes the hardest person to forgive is me. And and that that's hard.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Um it's one of the hardest ones, Jen. It's one of the hardest ones. But the part I will say on you, because it's something you've we've mentioned, and again, as we you guys, we talk, our team, our team is deep in what we talk, but I want to tell you personally on there. You are so worth the freaking forgiveness of everything and any of that stuff, because the smallest choice, if you can forgive yourself on the big things, the small things will eventually be able to be picked up.

Forgiveness Without Reopening The Door

SPEAKER_01 12:36

But if you understand that you're a good human, which you know you are, and you know that you mean no harm or no bad intention and no ill, just like I, when I say and do in my face and all that, I we can sit and scrutinize all of that for hours. And but here's what I've learned: we can sit in that assumption and make asses out of ourselves because we don't really truly know the intention or anything, or we can pick up a phone call, or we can say, Hey, my bad, I'm gonna do better this time, or hey, I messed this up, I didn't do this, or hey, this and that, good, good, good, done. And if we can do on the bigger things, you are so worth it, Jen, because I know I know how hard you are on yourself. So I just wanted to like say that, to interrupt you on that, to let you know, like you deserve to rest and to find the peace and joy in this life just as much as everyone else. And our type A personalities of having everything to be because it's in control when we need to. The only thing you can control is how you decide you're gonna think about yourself. And I really, really, really, really, really, really, really deeply pray and hope that you are seeing your worth and value on that. That forgiveness for yourself for any of the past or any of this stuff is just don't let others hold power over you. Anyway, that's all I had to say. Sorry, that was just not sorry, but thank you for being a friend and a cheerleader.

SPEAKER_06 14:00

So, y'all, that's that's what you can look forward to when you join the community is having cheerleaders all up in your face and in your corner, all over. And um also, I mean, I'm also like one of those people goes to Chat GPT and is like, give me some mantras that I can work with and like get over beating myself up. And the three that I like, uh, Adela actually says some of this uh regularly. It's I did the best I could with what I had or what I knew or what was available to me in that moment. And that's like it's not an excuse. It's saying, hey, listen, I wasn't me now back then. And I am continuing to grow, and that's okay, and that's how we get better at things. Um, the other is uh I'm allowed to grow beyond that moment. I don't need to plant myself in the past, I do not live there. Um, I am keeping going, and therefore I need to bring my mind and my thoughts with me and stop dwelling there because there's a whole lot of this and the future to do, and I don't need to be there anymore. That's the past. Um, and also when I'm feeling like I was a real poo a little while ago, um, my past actions do not define my entire future. Uh so you know, I can have messed up, and that doesn't mean that the future is going to be screwed up because of that one thing. So, you know, it's not about erasing responsibility. We acknowledge what happened and we create space for growth and healing. But uh a lot of folks, you know, they still get hung up on forgiveness is forgetting uh or allowing space for harm. And Adela, I think you have a really good perspective on what forgiveness is not, and we should talk about that too.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

So forgiveness is absolutely not, absolutely not. Just want to make sure an allowance or permission for someone to harm you over and over and over and over again, right? So, one of the things that I've had to learn is to forgive myself for putting the people around me in harm's way for with my words, with my stuff when I've been forgiven a thousand and one times, but my actions have not changed. That was something I had to face this month, and it was difficult to face because it's a relationship that I am strongly working to rebuild in my 40 inches. Um, it's a relationship that I because it's it's personal, extremely personal. My sister is deployed overseas. I want to build a better relationship. We haven't had the best one. It's because of me. I'm the older one, also because of my parents, also because of relationships, of everything. But that didn't excuse my behavior towards this just because, as we said, I did the best with what I did, what I knew. I grew from the points that I did, and I also went back and owned up to and face the people that I wanted to. So, but it also means that we have to create these boundaries that we are not gonna accept abuse from each other, or we're not gonna accept the abuse from me and to hold me accountable for that. Um, my boundaries now. I know my boundaries so much better that even though someone else might not, they don't have to forgive me. And I don't have to forgive them either, but I do forgive myself and I then in turn forgive them no matter what it is. No matter what it is, they can't, it can't hurt me because I cannot take it personally. I'm I'm not I'm not who they think I am. And if they can't move past that or we can't build past that relationship, it cannot, I cannot change that. And I'm not gonna dwell on that either. And that's a boundary, right? And that's a clear path I had to dictate and I had to narrate in that relationship so that it could be because I don't chase. That's something I've learned. Um, and again, forgetting what happened. It isn't about forgetting it completely, but it's also when the situation is brought up, like it has been to my attention, Adela, don't you think you might resent your family or your sister a little bit for these things? Don't you think you might be in this way or in that way because of the way you acted? And they're you're sitting in a small car and being asked these questions that you're like not ready

Friendship Betrayal And Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 18:03

to really answer. But yes, 100%. Because in what I knew then, back then, yes, I resented. But it wasn't that I resented her or resented them. It was resentment of myself. I resented who I was. I resented that I couldn't be a better daughter, I couldn't be a better sister, I couldn't keep my family together, I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that, I couldn't save people, I couldn't be a savior to the world, I failed at everything. I resented every bit of myself. It had nothing to do with anyone else. So the harm when we go back about forgiveness of self and the harm we cause, the harm we cause to ourselves first is so much deeper because then it just bleeds over to others. It really just bleeds over to others. And we don't even know that it bleeds over. It bleeds over in our mouth, it bleeds over in our attitude, it bleeds over in the in our passive aggressive behavior, it bleeds over in everything we touch, smell, taste in there because we absolutely despise ourselves. And so I had to learn as I sat there and I took a week off from work. Yeah, you guys, that was hard for me. Let me tell you something to not be on in anything and just be focused in this one thing. But it matters to me right now. It matters to understand and to show. They don't need to show or prove anything to me. But for me, I don't need to do it either. But it comes down to who's gonna step up in this forgiveness space, who's gonna be the one to show up first, who's gonna have the consistency, who, if you're really forgiven, will you be the one to say, I'm here for you, despite all that stuff? Because if we're grown past the point, if we're not who we are that we we were before, then what's stopping us from showing up in someone else's space and time, even though we may not have the best relationship and attempting to create that bridge again, right? And again, not necessary for any for anyone else. But when you walk away from it, however you walk away from it, you get to walk away lighter because you knew you said what you said. You know what your boundaries are, it's your honest truth. And whether or not, again, the other party or your whatever, whatever the relationship or place you're forgiving in it is, it can coexist with such healthy boundaries. Your relationship and forgiveness can truly be nothing that you hold on in resentment, but it has to be a decision. You decide, I will not look at this being in front of me as they were before. I will not attach what I know of them before to what I want them to be today, and I will ask how we can build to what the future would be better for ourselves instead of what we know. Because at the end of the day, we don't know each other. We don't know each other. Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Adele, it sounds like Debbie would like to lean in. Please. Did you have you watched the chosen, the series? I am in the process. There's a scene, I think it's in season uh four, it might be in five, but um Peter is asking for forgiveness and about 70 times seven, which is what the Bible says. And Jesus turns to him and he said, Peter, you misunderstand. I did not mean for you to forgive others. First, you must forgive yourself. That was a huge, like, oh. And he said, That's what I meant by that. This was the words of Jesus. And I feel like that was true. It was like, oh, that's true. And he said, You forgive yourself and the rest comes.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

So you're absolutely correct, Miss Debbie. To me, for those of you who are in faith and who are who are believers and who followed that or in spiritual journey or wherever that may be, but that's where my forgiveness came from for myself. To me, I am first and foremost a child of God. And if he says I am good and all good, so everything that I have done up to this point, I'm not saying it's for good and you know, good, good, but there's a consequence to something better to it, right? So, what can I learn to be better? How can I use it for the better, despite all of that? It has to be all for the good. So, even with all the stuff that's happening in the world and everywhere. And around us, what is the good out of that? Um, and so that's what I hold on to, and with forgiveness and with uh with all of that. And lastly, in the in there with the choices that you make, forgiveness can be a decision. So please hear me on this. It's not just a choice in which you get up every day and go, oh, something I'm gonna pick out of a hat, okay? Because you can have thousands of choices. But a decision is a commitment to what you have said, to your own words, to your own self, to your own plan, to your whatever. It is a commitment. And when you make that decision that you will forgive yourself, that doesn't mean that you will be like, it's perfect today, okay? It just means that you're gonna decide you're worth the effort sticking around for that decision as long as it takes for you to feel forgiven for yourself and for you to know that you've done it. It took me 10 years, and in those midst of that, I've struggled so hard. But today I can wholeheartedly say it like, I know nothing, I ain't nothing, I'm all, but I'm everything. And it's like it's it's one of the most freeing ways to start living. Um, so yes, it is definitely a decision that removes suffering from within yourself, and it also forms the relationships that you want to value when you decide worth of forgiveness.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

I also had a another person who's a pastor that I've known for a long time. Actually, I used to teach with her at a private school, and she said this to me. She said, forgiveness doesn't happen all at once. Forgiveness is a daily decision. And sometimes you'll have to s decide to forgive that person or persons every single day, and maybe again every single night, but uh you must make that decision. And and you have that those are the actions that you're taking. And that was hard for me to learn.

SPEAKER_06 23:51

So Adela and Debbie, you've both described personal forgiveness for growth and healing, and uh forgiveness in close relationships of um friend, family, um, teacher or student situations. Uh, I want to take a moment to acknowledge that there are some times that forgiveness can happen in a very ugly situation. It may still be with friends and family, or it could be somebody outside of your comfort circle. It could be a lover, it could be um someone that you knew as a friend. Uh, but betrayal happens in many directions, and sometimes it might be a stranger, and it can still hurt, and it can still suck, and it can harm us deeply. Forgiveness still has a place in those super suck situations, and you can forgive someone for yourself and still say I can't continue this relationship with you anymore. I need distance because you are unhealthy for me. Your behavior is not safe for me, and I'm choosing to remove it from my life. Choosing healthy boundaries from someone who has hurt you when you know that it is unhealthy to try and welcome them back in or regain something that has been hurting you is still forgiveness, and you do it for your internal well-being. And the good that comes out of it, to go back to what Adela was saying about good must come out of it. The good is that you can heal. And you can see my shirt uh today. This is my forgiveness shirt. It says we'll burn sage and bridges as needed. Because uh forgiveness can be like, I forgive and I'll get the out my space. Girl, you you said it so right.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

I have a say that I am the person. I will show up, I will help you build the bridge. I will also be the person that will bring you the matches and the lighter and let you set it on fire. Because when you do, good luck, I'll be back here going like, um, you got enough to figure it out because you figured out how to burn it in the first place. Thank you very much. We're not continuing this behavior. So absolutely, forgiveness is not linear and it's not, it is not just in in the good times that everything is gonna be great and awesome and you're gonna be fluffy. No, forgiveness also means saying I'm out. I forgive you, right? I'm out though.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Uh we ain't got no, we ain't got no time for this.

SPEAKER_06 26:47

I forgive myself for allowing this to happen. Uh, that's that's reflection on the self. I forgive the people around me for not protecting me if I depended on them. That can happen. Um, I forgive myself for being ignorant of the the depths of personality of the person that hurt me. That happens. You can forgive. And that person, you might be like, you're a horrible person, but I also understand that you're human and that you're growing. And I'm forgiving to release the emotional weight that's on me that hurts my heart and weighs me down and makes me feel like a black cloud, but I am not reopening the door to harm from you or anyone like you. And I think I think that's that's where we can kind of feel real life coming through in each of the examples that we've talked about. Um I'd like to talk through a couple of examples. Um, Adela, I'll I'll talk about friendship breakdowns. Maybe you can uh talk about workplace conflicts. Um, and then uh I'll I'll talk about self-forgiveness if we need to revisit that one. But uh here's an example. So I've got a secret, something on my mind, something happened, I'm not cool with it, but God, I just need to talk to somebody. So I tell uh Jane Doe, my friend, my my girlfriend Jane Doe. I say, Jane, you know, this thing happened, it's like really weighing on my mind. I just got to talk it out. Can you keep a secret? Can we can we work through this? Uh and Jane's all in my corner. And then later I find out that Jane told Brian, told Bill, told Greg, told everybody in our friendship circle, and now I'm in gossip mode and I'm like utterly embarrassed and frustrated, and I feel completely betrayed. So I stop talking to Jane. I'm like, homegirl is not my friend. I'm not gonna talk to her. But forgiveness here is remembering that not everyone is Jane. I don't have to live my whole life holding my secrets inside and not trusting anyone because of a Jane. I can acknowledge that I'm hurt, I can look at Jane and look at our friendship and decide whether that was enough to ruin us. If I can repair the relationship, if I even want to repair the relationship, and I can weigh the pros and cons. What does that make sense? But I can also choose to release the anger and not attach the anger like a heavy weight to my friends' group. Like I don't need to live with that around my neck every time I see Jane or see my friends. I can let it go, learn my lesson, and kind of just keep forgiving, like Adela was saying, like Debbie was saying every day. Adela can be Adela can be showing her feelings on her face.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

But my face might not still, I'm just saying. So if you catch it, you can knock me on. And I forgive it internally. My face might not have. I'm I'm just saying, it's just the truth, okay? Internally, I have forgiven. But you said I can forgive Jane Doe so I don't have to see her. I'm sorry, but if I I can forgive, but if I see you, my face might still be like, hmm, I know what you did last summer, and um, hmm, you know, I'm just saying it's the truth. That's the part of being honest, you guys. You gotta be honest to get past all the stuff, and I have no time for for none of that. Um sorry, that was a good, good little thing. I'm like, I just need to like because there's some faces out there that'll that'll go, I forgive, but my face, again, my face is just there.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

There's a difference between forgive and forget.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yes. See, my face can't forgive, my heart can forgive, my face can't forget.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

I don't think uh my own personal observation is if you totally forget, you can forgive and forgive yourself for being angry and reacting that way, but if you forget and really put that out of your out of your mind, the person has that capability to come back and do that again to you. That's where I am. I'm not gonna forget it. I'm forgiving you, even if I have to do it every day, but I'm not gonna forget what you're capable of.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Absolutely. Does any uh does anybody else want to chime in about that? Did they have an experience with the with a moment or share with a friend where they've had to make a decision? And what did that look like for you in that in that moment of forgiveness? Or did you forgive, did you not? Or are you still with the face like I am?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Yeah, I think that um this is where the the boundaries come in, you know? So it's like, okay, they're in our friend group, so like obviously I have to see them, and I don't want to make my other friends uncomfortable. Like that's the big thing, you know. Like I still want to keep everyone, you know, because I do value the other friendships, and I wouldn't want somebody to do that to me either. So um, yeah, there's definitely been, you know, situations where there's friends that have wronged you or done something or you know, whatever. And I think the key is is that um I'm just like you, Adela. It's always right here. So oh, I can't, you know, um, and I think that one of the things is when you have that weight, it sits in a different spot in your body depending on like what the situation might be. But like for me, it's usually like right in my stomach. So like you have to be around them and you just feel that pit in your stomach, and then you really have to just forgive so that that way you release that from your body and you don't have to deal with it, and then it kind of helps with the base, kind of maybe sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

I've learned that in my situation too, with the friend group and all that. I want to touch base on you on that. Sometimes, you guys, sometimes you have to burn the whole friend group. No offense. I'm just saying it is what it is. I had a situation, and when if it's all brought up to the front and everybody's all on this, and then you can, oh, don't worry, it's just and they don't take what you val, like if they don't take your morals seriously when something happens and they make fun of it or they say, literally, honestly, because it happened to me, I cried over this, and then I had to tell this human who fed me, who literally I considered my like dearest life. I've never let anyone into my house like this, into my life, into nothing. Like, torture me for a whole year, and I'm like, for real, why? And then I and then everybody else around go, don't worry, Adela. It was this, it was just that. No, there are intentions, there are some things. And when you don't value the human around you and just take it as a joke in some in in situations that again are matter to you, sometimes, no offense. Again, you gotta move on from the whole group, you gotta move from the whole room.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

And some and also sometimes I like I had an experience where I let it go and everybody still hung out, and then that person proved themselves to the rest of the people in the friend group, and so now that person is no longer in the friend group, but it made us stronger.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

And my vice again, yours was that, and that is so beautiful. My experience was vice versa. You can forgive who for so long, and you can stand for so long in situations to be put into positions or to be so it's you just and that's the part, you decide when it's time for you to let go.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

What you just said you have to know yourself, and like like you have to listen to your own intuition. And I think that that's kind of what the whole body is doing too, and it is telling you, hey, there's something not right here, and it's you get to like kind of figure it out. Am I supposed to forgive this person or am I just supposed to be like, okay, I'm gonna forgive myself for putting myself in that position?

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yeah, absolutely. Anyone else want to add to that? So we're we're it's very but personal relationships are really hard to navigate. So in friendships or something, then again, I talk all the time, I have no friends, but I have partners. So that taught me I have no friends, but I have partners. Um, it's a really big difference distinction for me. Um, and and but that's a boundary again, and where you are, and how does that make you feel? And where does your body where do you stand with your morals and your values and how you treat human beings and where is the boundary that you will not? What's your non-negotiable? And when you learn that about yourself, it really does help translate again into your forgiveness because then it doesn't matter. You're just you're not gonna negotiate with what doesn't feel right for you or feel good for you or does not provide you the benefit of your life. You're just not gonna go negotiating with your peace, like or your joy. You're not negotiating it or boundaries. Um, so moving on, let's do a war conflict one, right? Um, think about this, you guys, because this I'm gonna ask you uh to what it could mean

Workplace Credit Conflict And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 35:20

for you to what forgiveness would look like if in the in this situation, right? So a co-worker took credit for an idea that you shared in a meeting. In a meeting, production, in a book, in um that in whatever you might be in, in a friend's situation, too, and and where you guys work on a project and they took credit for your idea because it's it can create that conflict. Uh you felt angry, disrespected, uh, you felt taken advantage of. Uh forgiveness might not mean pretending like it didn't happen or moving on or just ignore the situation. So, what could it look like? What could that situation look like in process? And then how could you potentially move on or forgive from that situation?

SPEAKER_06 36:01

I read self-help books. Um, and I used to work in a corporate environment where things are fast-paced and idea sharing happens, and people do take credit for stuff, uh, especially when it's a team effort and they want to look good. Um, the best way to do it is to have a conversation with the person uh privately and see if they're delusional or if they had reasoning or if it was a slip of the tongue and they just said I instead of we. Um if they're in a space where it's like that was an oopsie, you can both go to the person in power that you work for and kind of correct that and just let them know, hey, you know, this came up, but I want you to know it's not just me, it's this person, it's this team. Um it might also be that the person is just not so nice. And you kind of use that one as the learning curve and set some boundaries and know that when you're gonna work on something, you're gonna work on something pretty darn clearly as you own it, and you're gonna make sure your boss knows exactly which piece you own. The only dangerous side of that coin is do not mess up. Uh, because you can squarely own piece B. And if you flop piece B, they all know who flopped it. So, you know, play your cards. You got to work with these team members, uh, sometimes for a few months in a project, half a year, a year and a half in a long-term way, or maybe half your career, you may have to work with these people. So it's about keeping the peace, I guess, and also reading the room. So back to what Alicia said with when you can't leave the friend group, well, you can't leave your workplace situation in all uh in all situations. Maybe you have that power and kudos to you. Not everybody can. Uh, you find a way to work with what you can work with and navigate it and just try to be the bigger person. So that's what I've learned. Um, I would love to hear from somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Yeah, I've definitely had that situation. I'm very much the person who tries to um give credit to other people, even when it might have been a group effort. Um, so when it's not reciprocated, it really upsets me. Um, something that I learned early in my career was to always, especially when you're creating like docs, make sure that your name is the one under the name that was created it when it shows that um is in the corporate world. I think that that's kind of helpful because um, you know, little things like that can be kind of hints. Um, but I think um you like like Jen said, you kind of have to read the room. And you know, sometimes it's something that you could go and you could talk to your boss about if somebody said something just to be like, look, I don't care that they're taking credit, but I want so and so to know that it was me and get your boss to help out with that. Because I think, um, and if your boss is the one taking credit, then that's a whole nother situation where you kind of have to say, like, look, um, one of the things my dad taught me was, you know, my job is to make my boss look good. So you tell the boss, like, hey, this was, you know, like I'm glad that I'm making you look good, but just remember me at review time, you know.

SPEAKER_06 39:38

So yeah, exactly. Hashtag facts, remember me at review time. You are not gunning for their job, their success, your success are tied to each other. If they're climbing the ladder, you might be the next person in line. You can let them know, listen, I'm so glad this is making you look good. I bet you're about to climb a foot up the rung. What do you need from me to prove that I can fill your shoes when you leave us? And that might be making um making an ally for life kind of thing, and also teach you about how um leaders pick and uh shape their successors. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't. Uh, if you get into a situation where you're in a toxic team, remember what we said about forgiveness uh but not allowing yourself to get hurt again. That may be the time for you to get out of that team in a healthy way. Um, maybe by asking to try new things, maybe you can frame it as I want to develop new skill sets, I want to brush up my resume with new experiences, I'm ready for a change. And you don't mention the toxic people, you mention, you know, your growth ambitions and your forgiveness. Uh what that looks like in this situation would be I forgive you, but I'm not gonna get hurt again. I'm gonna use this to grow and I'm going to learn more about people as I do it. Um, looking at the time, I want to uh move forward to our interactive exercise, Adela.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Alrighty.

Guided Fists Exercise To Release Tension

SPEAKER_01 41:16

All right, so we're gonna try a small activity together that helps us visualize something that many of us may carry every single day. If you're comfortable, okay, I need you to, we're gonna need your hands today. So please put your hands, just hands. Isn't that what's what's that one movie? Just hands. Anyway, if you're comfortable, take a moment and clench, clench your fists tightly. Don't hurt yourself if you, you know, if you have rings or if you have nails, big, but clench them. Now I want you to close your eyes and I want you to take a deep breath in and exhale and do that for about three to five breaths while um while you're listening to my hopefully sweet narration. Okay. Imagine each fist represents something painful you've been holding on to. It could be anger, regret, resentment, disappointment, betrayal, anything else that you could think of that could absolutely be a detrimental weight that is keeping you down. Keep your fists tight. How do they feel? Does it feel heavy? Does it feel hard? Does it feel tense, uncomfortable, tiresome? That tension is similar to what emotional resentment can feel like when we carry it for too long, and what it feels like in our body as a physical representation. That also means that is your adrenaline being stored and holding your muscle hostage in a situation that you're in sitting like this. So if you can start slowly unclenching your fists, start slowly releasing. There you go, just a little bit. Now go back to your clench. I want you to again remember what that feels like and imagine it all over your body.

SPEAKER_06 43:19

Now let's feel ourselves letting that go. Slowly open your hands, let your fingers relax, take a deep breath, stretch your fingers, flex your knuckles, hear some snap crackle pops, maybe ignore the indentations of your fingernails on your palms. But feel that relief, that that weight of that tension just drop out of your hands. The blood flow comes back, your hands are feeling healthy again, you don't feel quite so tense or agitated. Forgiveness, letting it out of Our body is that release that I was holding on and I wanted to protect myself. Yeah, yeah, your tight muscles were protecting you, but you overexhausted them, and you don't need to protect yourself at all times. Take a breath, relax your shoulders, relax your hands, breathe. That doesn't mean you forget what happened. I mean, I've still got fingernail marks on my palms, y'all. Uh, but releasing that felt great. The releasing that felt great to me. And that release, I let it happen relatively quickly in the span of time. I mean, it took like 20 seconds for us to do an exercise. Um, and as Debbie said earlier, forgiveness doesn't necessarily happen that quickly, but the feeling that relief, that flood of, oh my God, I needed to let that go, that is universal. And it might come in increments or it might come right away. But that's what it feels like to let go of the weight that we carry.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

And I want to add to that really go ahead, Claire.

SPEAKER_05 45:08

No, no, go ahead. Add on top of it too, yeah. Um, because it's funny because like when you said to like just keep it in your hands while we were releasing, like you still feel it throughout your entire body. Like when we did it, I felt my shoulders, like it was probably visual. Everyone probably saw the shoulders even go down. You probably felt it yourself. I felt even like my legs even relax a little bit, you know, because I always sitting in a chair with my short legs. I always have my legs tensed up, so like even my legs relax, like even visualizing it in this little space was able to spread throughout the body. And it's cool how, like, just like a little exercise, exercise like that can spread like that and affect you even more.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Now imagine that just know this. This was a 20-second thing we did, okay? And so for those of you at home, when you are trying this 20-second to a minute or five minutes exercise that you're doing with your clenching, use it as a reflection moment. The way your body might respond might might be what Claire just said, is just that if you're doing it for a minute, other times it might respond in such an emotional response for you, in which you may feel like you're drowning because you've you've hit something in there. And you may need to literally let it go. And you may not have anyone around you like to do that. It's it's part of what we do with our quarterly mental health days, it's part of what we do here if you need it here as well, or when we're in person and you see us. But if you don't have anyone to hold space for you, part of being able to hold space for yourself is what we're trying to teach you as well. Because when you're in that space when no one can hug you, when no one can give you what you need in that release, you have to be able to do it for yourself and trust yourself enough that you'll be able to pick yourself back up with that breath, that you won't crumble when you're releasing it, that you're not going to like it because I've been there. I've had to forgive on deeper levels that my body has put me on for three, four hours of panic crying, of just shaking in vibration and letting go. So, what we just did on that little level, sometimes it can happen in an intense level. So, again, mind you, we're not medical professionals or any of that, but I do want to share with you personal experiences of humans' reactions to bodies and to something when you actually do let go. It will look like and feel different for almost everyone. And but the idea is for you to acknowledge, as Claire just did, that there was tension, not only in the hands, but in the neck, in the shoulders, in the legs, and your in every part of you. And if you can feel that physically, imagine just for a minute your lifetime trauma that's holding on. So it are is that worth all of that? Is it for right now? And it, you know, it might not be. It might be because you might be going through something and figuring out you have to make that decision. Where do you let go? Where do you forgive yourself? And where can you then forgive others to release it so that your body can start living? And it really starts with the body. The book is called The Body Keeps the Score. I'm telling you right now, if you haven't listened to it, read it. It's on our YouTube channel or it's on our uh website too, under our podcast in the book section. Click on it's if you it's free. Listen, it's 19 hours, I believe, but it's worth every bit of the hours. Listen to it multiple times. The body keeps the score. You are keeping scores of everything in your life. You have to start letting that scorebook go. That is not your fight. That is not a game you need to be fighting and winning. It's not. Create your own game, create your own way, start a whole new one. You like you're the creator of the whole of how exactly you're gonna run and play it. No one else is. We're not defined by the narratives, by the experiences of others. We're not. We are defined by what we decide. We are defined by today. And that's something I'm gonna live by because I thought I was defined by everything in my past that it almost killed me. Today, not even close. It's a story I get to tell. It's an experience I got to live. And it's a man, it's a lesson I get to share. So it is an absolute beautiful way to start navigating the forgiveness for things I couldn't do, couldn't control, couldn't have no control over, no navigation up until my conscious awareness. So please give yourself some grace and share that. Okay. Jen, take it away.

Why Forgiveness Feels So Hard

SPEAKER_06 49:29

Um, we want to make a couple of minutes for some group discussion questions. Um, we'll we'll just like pick a couple of these just because of the time. Um, would anybody like to weigh in the challenge question of tonight? Is what makes forgiveness difficult? And I'll start, I'll just say ego, and then I'll ask for others to weigh in.

SPEAKER_05 49:57

I'd say the fact that it's a double-edged sword, not not necessarily that it's harmful, but that because it's double-sided, you know, uh forgiveness is almost always like self and the other person like a coin, a sharp coin, double-sided cut you. Yeah, yeah. I like that one better, but yeah, it's the fact that it's double-sided, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

The fact that it has feeling.

SPEAKER_06 50:29

Yeah, I think that there's emotions involved.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Yeah, and then it's stored in you, and you might not really even understand it, really. A lot of it is like self-playing calm.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

The avoidance of feeling really is the difficult part. Is forgiveness requires you to feel, and we are just trained not to feel. We avoid the feeling of being put into a sp being hurt and not even and and being actually admitting and accepting for what we were, what we've done, and who we're not now. That's difficult because it requires also, again, as Claire just mentioned, double-edged sword, constantly having to relive, constantly having to move forward, and constantly having to forgive. It is it is a literal cycle of insanity every day. But when you realize you're worth that washing machine and that good clean, keep getting in there, get tumbled.

SPEAKER_06 51:31

I think, I think it is uh murky the emotions that come with forgiveness and uh stepping into a discomfort zone. Um that washing machine, as you say, you're in discomfort as you acknowledge the the pain that you feel with forgiveness, uh, a situation that needs forgiveness, um, whether it's pain directed towards self for the side of the coin that Claire was talking about is is do I need to forgive myself? Did I do something stupid? Uh on the other side of the coin, the the betrayal, the hurt, did someone else do something stupid? Is it one of those spinning coins where we both did something stupid and we both need to be up in that really uncomfortable space, having those emotions, feeling some kind of way?

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Putting the ego away.

SPEAKER_06 52:27

Yeah, it's it's it's uh it's icky. And I've found also uh working through those those nasty emotion whirlwinds that we've been talking about, that uh myself or someone else may want to choose anger again because it's a lot more familiar, uh, and it allows us to take the blame and spotlight off of ourselves. But true growth, truly letting a weight go and moving forward requires us to uh walk through the valley of the shadow of death, feel that nasty, uncomfortable stuff, and uh come out the other side new.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

There's just something that hit me, Jen, uh, as you were talking. I think that um, and it again for me personally, so take it as anybody take it as it is, but um, it can't forgiveness, and it just hit me, forgiveness can't be more uncomfortable than the shit that I've lived in my own feelings of how much I hated myself. Like it can't, because I just thought about it. We were just saying murky, we were just saying that, and I put myself in those positions. Yes, they were uncomfortable, yes, they were murky, yes, they were all of that, but they were nothing compared to the feeling of me sitting in my own filth and my own net, like my own despise, like they're not that I will mm mm, I will forget, I will, yes, in my own, I will walk off, I will, I will, I will go and face my music any day, then sit in my own sh that I had that was absolutely atrocious, not only again to the world, but to myself. Like, absolutely. So, like when I think on where I was that way, that's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

I don't want that, don't want never ever no, but I will, I will face my mama, my daddy, my sister, my I will get absolutely judge early execute. Go, hey, what did I do? I have a PDF file. I'm sure, I'm sure I can tell you that it's in there somewhere, and I did it, okay?

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Absolutely. But to sit in mine where I was, and I think that just hit me so much. I'd rather be uncomfortable in the feeling with a human conversation than to be uncomfortable in my own skin.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

But I think that some people don't understand the real feeling of actual forgiveness because they think, oh, I'm forgiving you. Yeah, you're fine. You're, you know, you say sorry, okay, no worries. But then, like when you've actually forgiven someone, and like like my mom was saying, like, I don't think it's it's like not an instantaneous thing. It's like something that all of a sudden you realize a month later, holy cow, I'm standing next to this person and I'm not making the nerdy nasty face at them. And I and like, wow, I feel so amazing now. Like that nasty feeling in my stomach isn't there anymore. And like, once you like actually forgive them, you're kind of like, wow, this feels really good.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Yeah, you're like, why was I in that? Why was I in that in my own thought of my own? Why did I continue to cause my own misery? Hi, Taylor Swift. There's a problem, it's me. I'm just saying, okay. I'm just saying that's all. That's all.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

Yeah, so if you haven't done it yet, then like definitely give yourself a chance. Try it.

SPEAKER_06 55:50

From the lens of our time, we are getting very close to, and I just want to say, I'm gonna go ahead and put these out here just for folks who might be following along. And if you want to write down in your journal and give this some thought later, uh, our other discussion questions would have been uh have you ever experienced a moment where forgiving someone or yourself brought unexpected relief? I think Alicia was describing that somewhat. Uh, and then finally, what boundaries do you think are important when forgiveness is involved? So write those down in your journals, give them some thought. Maybe you will learn something about yourself. Uh, we would love to hear from you. Feel free to reach out to us via email. Um, Adela, let's let's go ahead and uh discuss our resource that we'll be putting up and then uh do the closing.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

All right,

Resources Announcements And Closing

SPEAKER_01 56:41

babe, maybe one second, you guys. Let me pull up um a little resource. Well, actually, um um where's my little thing? We're gonna be posting uh a little resource guide on underneath the um comments or our description in our YouTube channel. Uh for some reason my thing just stopped wanting to pull up. So what I had to share with you guys right here. But if you follow us on our social media, you will see the tidbits of what we have, our little carousels of forgiveness and our bits and pieces of um uh oh did it pull up? Nope, did not pull up. Nope, did not pull up. Um here we go. We're gonna have uh little um what what forgiveness is, what forgiveness is not, gentle reminders, reflection prompts, and some little questions for you for self-forgiveness to ask. We have created them into carousels, so they're gonna be on our Instagram pages, they're gonna be on our LinkedIn pages, we're gonna have it on our website, and we're gonna go ahead and attach the Pedia file to our um to the description in on the YouTube channel here, right after we get off too, so that you can click on that. And those are just gentle reminders. We've also added them to our email list as well, so please take a look at that and we'll have um them attached on our blog. We have an update coming up for our MCCs for the last three months uh that we'll have a blog next week uh on a website. So we'll have that information on there as well because it'll give a quick recap with some takeaways from the last three MCCs we had and where you can catch the replays as well. Um, so definitely take a look at that. We do try to provide you with as much resource and as much ways that you can self-start moving forward and creating the future and the ideal human that you see worth and fit for yourself. Just because we believe in you and we see you as the highest, brightest, shining star, we don't know what that means to you. We don't know what that looks like to you. So please showcase us what your star and living power is. Now, I lost my other part. So bear with me. Oh, I do have one more announcement to make before we go on into this other portion of what we need. Um, our runway to resilience fashion fundraiser event has been moved to September 19th. So we look forward to having everybody there. We're very excited. Our casting call is closed currently. We will have another one in June. So please take a look. We do have a couple of mothers casts for our fashion runway for our mother's resilience portion. We have some think merch casts for our humans, and we have two extra additional designers that have signed on to help with the project and with the fashion show. So I'm so excited. It'll be a three designer feature as of right now. We may have some more later, but we will also be doing another casting call in June for those designers as well. So some of the models who've been cast right now for our merch might be able to participate in our other ones and things like that. So the opportunities have just become more available for everyone. We'd love for you to participate. Go check us out on the website uh for some parts of my life in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

SPEAKER_06 59:43

Um Adela, your your audio from the uh okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

I was like, I don't know what I clicked, nothing was working on my end, so I don't know what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

I was like, I don't know where I was like, did it magically just start? That's great.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Um but you guys definitely check it out because as you guys were just hearing, that little bit, our documentary portion behind that was a great intro, Miss Debbie, our portion, our documentary, everything we're filming that ending to that, our um multi-year documentary. You guys, this has been definitely a defining the narrative. What is the human experience? And it's so beautiful because again, you get to see the old me, you get to see the growth of me, and you get to see the growth of the community and some of our participants here like clear as well. Um, so I'm super, super excited for that. So, anyway, updates on that. Um, and where am I at now, Jen?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:35

Final thought. Forgiveness is not about changing the past, it's about giving ourselves permission to step into a lighter, less burdened future. And like Debbie said in the beginning, sometimes it's quick, sometimes it takes years, sometimes we forgive in layers, and each layer is fine. Just keep going. What matters most is remembering that your healing belongs to you and you alone.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

We love you. Thanks for being part of our community. We'll see you next month, last Thursday, 6 30. April 30. April 30th. That was right. Thank you very much.